• May 7, 2017 at 9:59 pm

    @dgambill said:
    I’d like to keep as much of the rotation together as possible, and as for the position players the only two I wouldn’t add hop at this point are Perez and Soler. Gordon is staying put just because no one is going to take that contract.

    Respectfully, why? Why in the world would you want to do that? We’re not winning this year. We’re not winning next year. We’re not going to win the year after that.

    Dayton fucked up big time by not trading off everybody at the trade deadline last year when we could have made a killing. It’s a fireable offense if you ask me. It’s the kind of decision a general manager makes that essentially makes or breaks a team, and he broke this one. There is no excuse for it. He screwed up. He thought he could compete last year, he didn’t. He thought he could compete this year, he isn’t. You get your ass fired for those decisions in most organizations. Just not in good old Kansas City where most fans couldn’t name more than a handful of players that play on any other team… and are more concerned about whether a player smiles than they are if he can actually play.

    However, here we are again a year later and we have an opportunity to move players again. They all still need to go.

    Vargas and Kennedy are NEVER… repeat NEVER going to have more value than they have right at this very moment. So even if you only get a couple of little minor pieces for them, buh bye. What would be the point of not doing it? Our minors are barren. Like nothing is there, nothing.

    At this point if you get offered a small gold mine for Duffy you take it. You do the same for Salvador. Cya. Was nice having you, we need to rebuild.

    Gordon… nobody would want him on that contract so he’s stuck. But other than that there is nobody on this team that can’t or shouldn’t go.

    To want to keep players for any reason is illogical.

  • May 7, 2017 at 10:06 pm

    Did you see what the Yankees did last year? Just because I honestly feel like piling on right now. They traded guys. And they got a ton in return… and then they actually resigned one of the guys they traded away.

    And look at them now. That’s the result of some good trades and a good minor league system.

    Did we do that? Hell no. We’re the Kansas City Royals and we feel we know more than anybody else does about baseball… ever. We’re not going to trade guys, we’re going to win with our core because gosh darnit, they’re our friends.

    Do we have a Gleyber Torres in our system? Do we have a Gary Sanchez? Do we have an Aaron Judge? Clint Frazier or Dillon Tate? Those were top prospects they acquired last year for doing the right thing.

    But no, let’s keep our guys…. because that makes sense.

  • May 8, 2017 at 6:41 am

    To me there are two key questions;

    1. Does Glass have much faith in Dayton at this point?

    and, assuming he is in the process of losing his faith

    2. what will he do about it?

    My hunch is his faith in Dayton’s leadership was shaken by last year’s performance.

    To some extent, he (Glass) like a lot of the fans, “bought” the injuries / fatigue narrative “explaining” it. After all, I would think Glass had 100% faith in Dayton’s leadership after 2015.

    What does he think when he looks at this year’s faceplant? AND the fact that the Royals don’t seem to have any everyday player in the minors able to step up and contribute offensively like the Yankees do?

    He is seeing attendance plummet
    He can see the idea of another championship flying out the window
    Viewership on Fox is plummeting and the idea of a very lucrative cable contract is fading

    There has got to be a lot of cognitive dissonance.
    I think he believed 18 months ago that he had a very competent baseball executive. He has to be questioning that now.

    Barring a complete turnaround in the next 4 weeks, I think he will insist on selling-off all the core guys who are going to be free agents. I doubt Dayton’s job is in jeopardy yet but I don’t think the notion of him being replaced is as far fetched as it would have been a year ago. After all Glass is an experienced business exec, and the one these guys usually keep a pretty close eye on industry trends, and the trend is toward stronger university credentials in the front office.

  • May 8, 2017 at 10:51 am

    from Cafardo at Boston Globe

    “The Royals have their scouts scouring the farm systems of organizations they feel they might match up with in trades for pending free agents Lorenzo Cain, Eric Hosmer, and Mike Moustakas. The prevailing thought is the Royals can move Cain the easiest, but he’s the one they’d most like to keep. They will likely re-sign shortstop Alcides Escobar, whose contract also expires after the season.”

    https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2017/05/06/nick-cafardo-where-can-red-sox-turn-for-pitching-help/aljL74zO3vPdDNXktbloVJ/story.html

  • May 8, 2017 at 9:50 pm

    @gene said:

    I think he believed 18 months ago that he had a very competent baseball executive. He has to be questioning that now.

    But he didn’t and that’s a big part of the problem. He just didn’t.

    Seriously, I want someone to come to Dayton’s defense right now. Come to his defense and tell me how after 11 years in charge now that Dayton is some really good general manager that’s made a lot of really good decisions and has this organization right where we should be.

    Do it. Please. I dare you.

    What’s the argument? We’ve been to 2 World Series in 11 years? We won one. Is that the argument? Is it? Is that Dayton’s defense.

    Gosh, fans, you sucked for 30 years and I brought you one World Series victory. And then we had a season where we were .500 right after and looking like a less than .500 teams 2 years removed from that. Oh and… well there’s nothing in the minors that’s going to help anytime soon and I didn’t want to trade anybody last year because I believed in them and then I didn’t trade anybody in the offseason but I brought in a power hitting DH that sucks and traded for a power hitting right fielder that sucks. Still love me?

    In the past 5 seasons the A’s have been to the playoffs 3 times. The Astros went through a stretch of 12 years where they were 1st or 2nd in their division 11 times… 11 times. Not just a couple. When the Twins were good they won the AL Central 6 times in 9 years. Tampa Bay won more than 90 games 5 out of 6 seasons just a couple of years back.

    Being competitive isn’t impossible. It’s a lie that the idiots on the radio here in KC spread. It’s a lie that the team sells fans.

    So where is the defense for Dayton Moore? Where are his believers that keep saying what a great general manager he is? I just want to hear the defense.

  • May 9, 2017 at 10:28 am

    Two WS in the past 3 years. The Nationals have never been and the franchise formed in 1969. Same with the Mariners since 1977. The Rays once, formed in 1998. Rockies once, formed in 1993. Astros once, formed in 1962. The Brewers once, formed in 1969. The Angels once, formed in 1961. Diamondbacks once, formed in 1998. So ya, that is something even if you quibble with the time horizon. Since Moore took over 11 teams have made the WS. Most teams cannot stake a claim to appearing in the WS. As usual, you pick arbitrary standards and cherry-pick anecdotes that aren’t reasonable or representative of the league as a whole. You act like winning GMs grow on trees and the next guy up is a lock to be an improvement.

    Moreover, if Moore sold off last year, the rebuild would ostensibly be different how? They’d be in a different last place than they are now? The hypothetical returns would be better? Until we know what Moore gets in return this year that argument is pure conjecture. It makes no sense to pull the plug on a team that still had a chance to pan out when the next phase is a multiyear rebuild. Extending that rebuild one year at most is less costly than seeing if this crew could figure it out one more time.

  • May 9, 2017 at 7:09 pm

    How about a trade for Matt Harvey? The Mets seem to be fed up with him, he’s currently on a one year $5 million deal, and has a year of arbitration left before he hits free agency.

  • May 9, 2017 at 8:40 pm

    @southpaw1188 said:
    Two WS in the past 3 years. The Nationals have never been and the franchise formed in 1969. Same with the Mariners since 1977. The Rays once, formed in 1998. Rockies once, formed in 1993. Astros once, formed in 1962. The Brewers once, formed in 1969. The Angels once, formed in 1961. Diamondbacks once, formed in 1998. So ya, that is something even if you quibble with the time horizon. Since Moore took over 11 teams have made the WS. Most teams cannot stake a claim to appearing in the WS. As usual, you pick arbitrary standards and cherry-pick anecdotes that aren’t reasonable or representative of the league as a whole. You act like winning GMs grow on trees and the next guy up is a lock to be an improvement.

    Moreover, if Moore sold off last year, the rebuild would ostensibly be different how? They’d be in a different last place than they are now? The hypothetical returns would be better? Until we know what Moore gets in return this year that argument is pure conjecture. It makes no sense to pull the plug on a team that still had a chance to pan out when the next phase is a multiyear rebuild. Extending that rebuild one year at most is less costly than seeing if this crew could figure it out one more time.

    And per usual you just arbitrarily decide that going to the World Series twice in 11 years means he’s a top notch GM. I think we can pretty much all agree that the playoffs are a crapshoot but that you can’t be in the World Series if you don’t make the playoffs. So by default BEING COMPETITIVE is more important than going to the World Series, because if you’re not competitive you won’t make the playoffs.

    So my arbitrary standards mean more than yours. My point was that you don’t get to declare that you’re some genius general manager when in 11 years you’ve been to the playoffs twice. Twice. And your whole case for being a competent general manager was made by the core group of guys up here right now that have had 3 winning seasons out of the 7 that most of them have been together now. And the last 2 of those were after winning the World Series and not being nearly as good the following year and absolutely sucking 2 years later.

    And what’s left now? Nothing.

    The matter of fact in this is that Dayton has said all along that it was about the draft and building from within and he got his guys and those guys have pretty much sucked inasmuch as being competitive year in and year out. We got lucky to make the playoffs 1 year and we got even luckier to make the World Series that same year. Then we had a really good season and we won the whole damn thing.

    And that’s what you have him hanging his hat on. 2 World Series appearances and 3 winning seasons out of 11. While other teams have shown repeatedly that maybe they didn’t get to the World Series but they can maintain competitiveness when the KC Royals and the KC media tell you it’s impossible. We should all bow down and kiss Dayton’s feet because my gawd at least he got us back to the World Series and we had 2 nice years out of the 11 he’s been here………. just don’t worry about what’s happened after.

    It’s insanity. Just like your argument is.

  • May 9, 2017 at 8:43 pm

    And by the way, with all due respect, if you’re seriously going to sit there and suggest that Dayton can get more now than he could have last year at the trade deadline then everybody on this message board can just assume you’re full of shit and just arguing to argue.

    Everybody and I mean everybody damn well knows you’re going to get more the more control teams have over the players you’re moving. I’m not saying you can’t get anything now, but what you could have got at the trade deadline last year will trump whatever he gets at the deadline this year, without question.

    And that’s even assuming he makes any trades to begin with.

    But it’s an empty argument because we’ll never know what he could have got last year… we just know it would have been more.

  • May 9, 2017 at 11:46 pm

    @dgambill said:
    How about a trade for Matt Harvey? The Mets seem to be fed up with him, he’s currently on a one year $5 million deal, and has a year of arbitration left before he hits free agency.

    Our record with bringing in NL pitchers hasn’t been great. Add clubhouse issues and I’ll pass unless we plan on spinning him again.

    Because Royals™
    2015 GDT record: 5-1

  • May 10, 2017 at 8:50 am

    Rich – I’m not going to blockquote the long responses and make really long posts.

    So I guess you love the Chiefs philosophy? Never has a franchise been more committed to just making the playoffs.

    The playoffs are a small sample size and you have to make it to play. No disputing that. But calling it luck and a crap-shoot is also incorrect. The better teams win more often than not. Also, some teams have better playoff builds where roster composition looks different than the regular season.

    So lets talk playoff droughts. Even with 10 teams making the playoffs now, Mariners are 15 years without making the playoffs. Marlins 13. Padres 10. Chi Sox 8. Twins 6. Phillies 5. And all those teams have little chance of making it in the foreseeable future. Some are in large markets. It isn’t as easy as just bringing in a new guy and it fixes everything. My point throughout this is that Moore has earned time to right the ship and he has made it work in KC. What he does in the next year is critical, but putting in someone new at this juncture that lacks experience and infrastructure likely is catastrophic for a rebuild.

    To the return on trades, my point wasn’t about the value of the parts being traded. Of course control adds value. The issue is that someone has to be willing to pay that value and it isn’t clear to me that last year people were paying for what the Royals had to sell. No 1B was moved in July last year (so no Hosmer trade). Moose was out for the year. The OF were Guyer, Beltran, Reddick, Bruce, Kemp, Billy Burns, Upton. None of those guys are Cain or got anything close to what he was worth. Davis is the only guy that maybe could have returned more because teams were dealing for RP, but he too was injured in July. We won’t know the counterfactual of actively shopping those guys, but the idea that Moore could extract their market value when there weren’t teams buying that product is a dubious assumption.

  • May 11, 2017 at 1:13 am

    There is a line – albeit possibly a slim one – between treading water to remain competitive as the Chiefs have done and making continuous moves in baseball to constantly remake your team so as not to just have a blip on the radar every few years.

    You’ll notice that nowhere did I say that making the World Series was easy or even that for some teams making the playoffs is easy, but then again I don’t want the Royals to be some team… I want them to be good. If you’re just going to declare that it’s impossible to be competitive and forgive them if they go in to 10 year slumps now and then, then that’s on you as a fan. I can see slumps now and then but there really truly is no reason for them to be prolonged if you’re doing your job as a general manager… and that means making tough decisions about trades when they need to be made.

    So when I pointed out all those teams that managed to be “competitive” year in and year out over a number of years it was simply to point out that it is quite possible to do that and those weren’t even large market teams. Those were small market clubs. That’s what we should be emulating. To constantly hear from this club and this media that you can’t be competitive over the course of several years is a joke.

    By the way, I wasn’t calling the playoffs a crap-shoot, I was calling the World Series a crap-shoot. Being competitive and making the playoffs should be the goal, not making the World Series… because you can’t make the World Series if you don’t make the playoffs. Once you make the playoffs roll the dice. But you have to make it first. So yes, I’d rather be competitive over the course of 10 years and maybe only make the playoffs 3 or 4 times but be good 7 out of those 10 years and have a chance every single season to be in the playoffs… rather than be good for only 3 years and hope that in those 3 years you make the World Series. That makes little sense to me.

    Plus you completely “forgot” to respond to the fact that this core group that Dayton put everything on to be competitive over the course of years… hasn’t been competitive. In the 7 years that the core has been up here they’ve had 3 winning seasons. 3. And you call that being competitive or you call that the mark of a good general manager? Really? 3 winning seasons in the 11 he’s been in charge and in 7 of those his guys, the guys he said he wanted and brought up here have been to the playoffs 2 out of 7 years and had a winning season 3 times.

    That’s what you call good? Your expectations are crap, my friend. Crap. Sorry.

  • May 11, 2017 at 1:17 am

    And as far as trades go, who cares if no 1B was moved… maybe none were being offered. Maybe nobody wanted the guys that were being offered. You can’t even begin to convince me that if Hosmer and his .300 something batting average were offered in July of last year that nobody would have ponied up for him. That’s a joke, right? Davis could have and should have been moved in June rather than holding on to him. Cain was worth a small fortune and would have got more than any other outfielder did last year.

    And we’re facing the same issues this year. There is no reason to hold guys until July and risk injury. We’re out of it now and even if we weren’t it wouldn’t matter. Trade them. Bring them back next year if you want but you trade them now.

    Any other discussion or desire or want or hope or holding onto this nostalgic feeling about this team and wanting to see them make another run at it……. is dumb. Again, sorry, but it is.

    If they had come out of the gates at 20-10 instead of 10-20 okay, I’d listen to your argument and could see your point. But they didn’t. So there is no argument.

  • May 11, 2017 at 10:28 am

    Again, we seem anxious to sell we get less. That is just economics. Also, teams don’t buy until July. That is dumb, because games matter just as much in June, but they just don’t. Last year Bud Norris, Fernando Rodney, James Shields and Chris Coghlan where the guys that got moved in June. Unlike MLB the Show or OOTP, you aren’t going to be able to compel other teams to trade when they aren’t interested in doing so.

    Here were the 1B in the playoffs last year: Hanley Rameriez, Edwin/Smoak, Chris Davis, Napoli, Moreland/Platoon, Adrian Gonzalez, Brandon Belt, Rizzo, Zimmerman, Duda/Loney. Those teams weren’t buying 1B. You think the Brewers weren’t trying to move Chris Carter?

    Cain was hurt and played two games in July. Again, couldn’t sell that.

    The decision to sell last year is a function of what you think the team could have done this year. They could have come out and won, in which case Moore looks smart (although you’d never say it). They didn’t, and he bares responsibility for that fact. He has to make things happen now in the selloff/rebuild or he’ll get out.

    You keep putting words in my mouth that I’m saying Moore is good. I’m saying Moore is competent enough that we shouldn’t fire him yet. He has won, and with that he gets the opportunity for a rebuild. Thinking that there is a GM tree that the Royals are going to go pluck the next guy off of and he’ll automatically deliver is a fantasy. An itchy trigger with the GM lands you in a spot like the 49ners, who have shitcanned enough people now that no one worth a damn goes there. Moore getting a chance to fix it makes KC look good for the next GM when Moore’s time here is done.

  • May 11, 2017 at 3:30 pm

    2 quick responses.

    You sell when there is a need for a buyer. Simple as that. You think the Nats wouldn’t do a deal right now?

    And… as far as a GM tree, that’s putting words in my mouth. I have no idea if the next guy will be better or worse, that’s always the risk you take. I think they’ve been stupid in half their hirings – if not really more – but most of those at a coach level. Ned Yost for as much as I hate the guy is certainly better than Trey Hillman or Tony Muser. But I never would have fired McRae myself. In fact I would have kept Wathan around. And I’ve said for a long, long time I would have hired Jamie Quirk. You win some, you lose some… but that doesn’t mean you don’t make changes when you need to.

    My problem is that I don’t think Dayton has deserved a chance to rebuild just because he won a World Series once in 11 years. He’s had 3 winning seasons out of 11 he’s been in charge. His guys – you keep not responding to his – HIS GUYS that he drafted with numerous top 5 picks and top 10 picks in the draft… multiple top picks….. his guys have had 2 winning seasons, 2 in the 7 that they’ve been up here (assuming this year they’re not going to win). And that is what you’re hanging your hat on and that is what you’re using as an excuse that Dayton should be another shot at it.

    So what you’re saying is Dayton gets another chance and that hopefully out of the next 10 years (if history repeats itself) we may have 2 or 3 winning seasons and 1 or 2 chances at the playoffs… because the World Series certainly isn’t guaranteed. And that’s what you want? That’s what Dayton provided you this past 11 years.

    My expectations for a general manager and this team are much greater. I think that’s our main difference. I don’t accept mediocrity… and honestly you shouldn’t either when you’re talking about a major league franchise and spending $100 a ticket to go watch them play.